(no subject)

[kittydesade]

This would be so much easier if the damn gloss had all the words.

1. Заходите!
Лена: Здравствуй, Нелли! Гэри, привет!
Lena: Hello, Nelly! Gary, hi!

Гэри: С праздником!
Gary: Happy Holidays! [Singular in Russian, plural in English. Huh.]

Лена: И вас тоже! Что вы стоите? Заходите! Раздевайтесь, берите тапочки!
Lena: And to you as well. Why are you just standing there? [Lit. What you stand? I think...] Come in! Take off your coat, take/pick slippers.

Света: Садитесь! Стол готов.
Sveta: Have a seat! A/this? seat is ready. [Which is awkward in English, but there's no semantic equiv that I can think of.] The table is ready [Behemoth prefers 'served.']. [That's because it's TABLE, Jag, Table. We're going to write that on your hands till you remember.]

Нелли: Ой, всё выглядит так вкусно!
Nelly: Oy, everything looks so good delicious/tasty!

Света: Не стесняйтесь! Салат берите! Селёдочку! Икру!
Sveta: Don't be shy! Have [some] [or take, or help yourself to] salad, herring, [or] caviar. [Noting for future reference: While in English the exclamation point is more for emphasis, in Russian it is mandatory. Translation here changed for semantic correctness.]

Алёша: Ребята, я хочу предложить тост за наших американских гостей.
Alyosha: Guys, I would like to propose a toast to our American guests.

Лена: Да, давайте выпьем за наших ребят.
Lena: Yes, lets drink to our friends children [friends?].

Алёша: Я поднимаю бокал за наших друзей Гэри и Нелли. Пусть они приезжают к нам чаще.
Alyosha: I raise a glass to our friends Gary and Nelly. May they Let them come to us more often.

2. Если бы вы были дома...
Алёша: Ребята, вы бы так встречали Новый год, если бы вы были у себя дома?
Alyosha: Guys, would you see in the New Year thus [a little archaic but the semantic fits in the structure given?], if you were at home? celebrate the new year the same if you were at home? [Semantic translation given by Behemoth.]

Гэри: Ты знаешь, у нас Новый год не такой уж большой праздник.
Gary: You know, our New Year isn't such a big holiday.

Нелли: Да. Вот если бы я знала, что у вас Новый год -- такой большой праздник, я бы тоже приготовила что-нибудь.
Nelly: Yes. Here, if had known that your New Year was such a big holiday, I would have also prepared/cooked something.

Гэри: У нас самый большой праздник года -- Рождество.
Gary: For us/ Our biggest holiday of the year is Christmas.

Нелли: И Ханука для евреев.
Nelly: And Chanukkah for the Jews. [Nngh.]

Лена: Значит, большой вечер вы устраиваете на Рождество?
Lena: That means you arrange a big evening on/for Christmas?

Гэри: Ну, как тебе сказать? Стол действительно большой. Но Рождество обычно отмечают в семье.
Gary: Hm, how to tell you? A really big table [semantically, feast?] The table feast/dinner [more correct semantics] is actually big, [lit. table actually big] but Christmas is usually celebrated in the family.

Нелли: Да. Как раз 25-го я здесь очень скучала по своим. Ведь если бы я была дома, мы дарили бы друг подарки, мы с мамой готовили бы обед, пошли бы в церковь...
Nelly: Yes. Just Like this 25th here I missed everyone my family very much. If I were at home now we would give gifts [to our] friends, we would make dinner with Mama, we would go to church...

Лена: А у вас все ходят в церковь на Рождество?
Lena: [Not sure how to translate this... for you?] In your country/at your place [does] everyone go to church on Christmas?

Нелли: Верующие ходят.
Nelly: [People of faith] do/go.



OOF. OOF I SAY. So, note to self: never, ever do vaults in the loose sweatpants again. Not without tying them up around your waist. Because even though, yes, there wasn't really anyone out there to see, the one time you vault up and your pants don't go with you, someone will be there walking their dog to see your pretty black panties. Murphy knows it, and you know it.

On the other hand, I can almost vault over the fence! And I mean full on, hands on the rail to guide and legs tucked under and over I go! Smoothly! That was... far quicker than I expected. I'm not sure if it's because of all the running jumping up on benches getting me used to vertical motion simultaneous to horizontal motion or what. But speaking of benches, I hit the benches at a run today, ran over a bench, down the other side, jumped over a small wall, up the grass, down the grass, down over the small wall, up on a bench, down, up on a bench, down, skidded to a halt. Without barely breaking stride. It might be cheapass baby parkour, but it is fucking baby parkour. Oh yeah. Who's awesome? That would be me.

Hopefully today will be less eventful than yesterday with its weird blackouts and the boy falling asleep when he should have been leaving to pick me up. Oooh so infuriating. Still have projects to do, check in, etc etc etc. I got a decent night's sleep last night but, oi. I could have done without the bout of fat-and-ugly-itis.

Comments

[behe_moth]

>>Что вы стоите?
>>How are you spending [it]?
Incorrect. Here "стоИте" is a derivative from "стоять", that means "to stand", not "стоить", that means "to cost". So this thrase means "Why are you [still] standing [there]?".

>> [??blargh??] slippers
In Russia the rule often is to take off your shoes and wear the house slippers when entering smb's house.

I think I should better post a lot of short comments than a loooong one )

[kittydesade]

You think you had better. :)

Long comments are fine too; actually, long comments are easier because then it's all in one e-mail notification for me to store and look back at!

[behe_moth]

Ok, I'll try to fit everything in one comment next time )

[behe_moth]

>>A/this? seat is ready.
"Стол готов" means that the table is served and I think it should be translated this way.

>>Нелли: Ой, всё выглядит так вкусно!
>>Nelly: Oy, everything looks so good!
Russian "Ой" can be translated as "Ouch" or "Oh", it depends from context. Here - "Oh".
"Вкусно" means "tasty". Can you say "It looks tasty" in English?
(God, I'm tired from these "quotes". I won't use them anymore :-) )

>>Have [some] [or is it here is?] salad!
Have some salad, right.

>>they're way too fond of their exclamation points
Emotions, emotions ))

[kittydesade]

Hmm. Served, in English, is more formal, sometimes implying servants. On the other hand, English speaking countries tend to be less formal about their meals than, say, Japan, or some other countries.

That might be a personal quirk, I tend to sprinkle my speech with flavoring particles like 'oi,' 'nu' and 'meh'. The first two from childhood, the second more recently.

You can, yes!

Kiki, my Russian tutor, and I finally discovered how English uses exclamation points differently. In Russian, if we have it right, they are more mandatory than in English or Spanish. In English and Spanish they're used only for emphasis, and not always on the imperative form of the verb.

[behe_moth]

Well. If in English "table is ready" is correct, then why not?

In Russian there are some rules about exclamation points but actually noone remembers them :-) So they are used in most cases foe emphasis too.

[behe_moth]

Just another one thing about emphasis. In this dialog Sveta is trying to show as much hospitality as possible. It's in Russian traditions (which are not so widespread nowadays, actually). BTW caviar is not a dish-for-everyday. And she fusses over around the guests offering the dishes. So the exclamation marks are placed here only to show the emotions.

[behe_moth]

>>Alyosha: Guys, I would like to propose a toast to our American guests.
For our American guests.

>>Лена: Да, давайте выпьем за наших ребят.
>>Lena: Yes, lets [??freaking gloss!??] to our friends.
Yes, let's drink for our friends.

>>Алёша: Я поднимаю бокал за наших друзей Гэри и Нелли. Пусть они приезжают к нам чаще.
>>Alyosha: I raise a glass to our friends Gary and Nelly. May they come to us more often.
"Я поднимаю" is a continious tence [?? freaking grammatics, never remember it]. To the point - it means "I'm raising". Raising the glass for smb.
"Пусть они приезжают к нам чаще." - Let them come [here/to us] more often.

[kittydesade]

To, for... In English, 'to' would indicate that the American friends are the object of the toast. 'For' implies several things, that the friends are not present or not able to toast... it implies that they are performing the action in lieu of the American guests. If that is the correct meaning in Russian?

Continuous tense, yes. Although in my book they call it perfective and imperfective. I much prefer continuous and simple, it makes it easier to remember!

That said, in English it is correct to say 'raise' even if the action is continuous, because it's a set phrase. Idiom! That's the word for it.

So noted. :)

[behe_moth]

No, here выпить за кого-л. does not means to drink in liew of smb.
Actually in Russia when you drink for someone who is present the hidden meaning is that you drink for his/her health, so 'for' should be keeped as I think. Ok, it's a small thing )

But I can see you translated ребят as children. It's a rather big mistake. 'Ребят' here means lads or guys but afaik both these words are not very distributed in modern English so I put 'friends' there. In modern Russian(especially the spoken part) you will say дети,not ребята when you mean children in 99% cases.

I'll continue later :-)

[kikibug13]

Yeah, definitely 'to' here. Prepositions do not map directly between languages, and while 'за' would usually seem to translate into 'for,' it's far from always the case.

[behe_moth]

Kiki, I cannot agree with you. As I already said to Kitty, in Russia when you drink for someone who is present the hidden meaning is that you drink for his/her health, so 'for' should be keeped as I think.

[kikibug13]

Nobody ever says 'raise a toast for' in English. You might want to consider not only the Russian side of the translation but the English one, too. *wry* Trust me, translations are what I do.

[behe_moth]

Yap, I digged into dictionary and see that I was wrong, thank you.

[kikibug13]

Dug. (dig -> dug -> dug, irregular verb)

Usually, if kittydesade sticks to her use of prepositions in English, she's probably right. Prepositions are pesky things and no matter how hard you try to learn them by heart, the only way you ever use them correctly if you get enough feel of the language (any language, not just English) so the right ones feel right and the wrong ones feel off. Usually best achieved by much reading and listening to native speech.

[behe_moth]

And thank you again.
I think there's another way to achieve it - to communicate with the ones who feels the language, so that I do )

[kikibug13]

No problem.

That also helps. You just need way more time to get the same amount of information, this way. Reading a book written in English will mean perceiving the use of the language that's difficult to get through in months, if not more, of conversations with native speakers.

(Of course, that may also be making a difference to me, since it takes me one or two days to read a book that I like, and I know not everybody reads that fast, in either their native language or a foreign one.)

[behe_moth]

Desprite that fact that I'm reading with the same speed, I almost out of time for reading except some technical books. A pity.
And I cannot completely agree with you. The books are good to extending vocabulary, but they cannot give the understanding of how people really communicate. The language in books usually differs from the language used in real conversations etc.

[kikibug13]

Technical books sometimes can help, too. They are grammatically correct, and some of the aspects of a language that are confusing or don't stick around when learned in lessons can stick around in one's memory still.

Yes, and no. As much as online communication may seem closer to spoken conversations, it differs from the language used in real conversations, too. To the point that, if I am paying attention, I can often tell if an entry/comment was typed in or dictated.

But my point was about small phrases that are used identically in spoken and written speech, idioms including prepositions in particular. The best way for them to stick around in one's mind is reading/hearing them the correct way over and over and over again. Hence, a book with 150 000 words doing the work faster than months of conversation.

Direct communication is, indeed, better for getting a feel of the live language. Unless, of course, you run into people who don't care about writing their entries and comments correctly, and there are many of those online.

[behe_moth]

The problem is that direct communication with the native speakers is not always available.

Ok, let's finish for today ) 2 sw testers, hardened by bug advocacy, can debate forever :-D

[kikibug13]

Pretty much. I was just sharing personal experience with all the variations - and as somebody who people can't tell is not a native English speaker online.

Hah. Yes.

the last one, really

[behe_moth]

Yes, I was pretty surprised when I looked into your profile that English is not native for you )

It's OK, there's a difference between argument and conversation!

[kikibug13]

:) Thank you. It's a work in progress, along with all the other languages.

[behe_moth]

>>Алёша: Ребята, вы бы так встречали Новый год, если бы вы были у себя дома?
>>Alyosha: Guys, would you see in the New Year thus [a little archaic but the semantic fits in the structure given?], if you were at home?

No damn quotes here)
Встречать Новый год - to celebrate New Year's Eve. And the complete thrase changes to

Guys, would you celebrate the New Year's Eve the same way if you were [at? I'm not sure we need it here] home?

[kittydesade]

... Hmm. That does fit the semantics better! Home or at home can be used, and are used, interchangeably.

[behe_moth]

Нелли: Да. Вот если бы я знала, что у вас Новый год -- такой большой праздник, я бы тоже приготовила что-нибудь.
Nelly: Yes. Here, if had known that your New Year was such a big holiday, I would have also prepared something. [erk]

The verb приготовить is a form of готовить, which means both to cook and to prepare. So

Yes. If I knew that the New Year's Eve is such a big holiday for you, I would cook something too. (not sure about goddamn tences in the 2nd part)

>>Гэри: У нас самый большой праздник года -- Рождество.
>>Gary: For us/our biggest holiday of the year is Christmas.
Our fits here better, I think.

[behe_moth]

>>Лена: Значит, большой вечер вы устраиваете на Рождество?
>>Lena: That means you arrange a big evening on/for Christmas?
Устраивать вечер here means to prepare a party. I'm not sure how the whole sentence should look like.


>>Гэри: Ну, как тебе сказать? Стол действительно большой. Но Рождество обычно отмечают в семье.
>>Gary: Hm, how to tell you? A really big table [semantically, feast?] But Christmas is usually celebrated in the family.
Стол действительно большой means a lot of dishes is served etc. Big feast or big banquet or something like that.

>>Нелли: Да. Как раз 25-го я здесь очень скучала по своим. Ведь если бы я была дома, мы дарили бы друг подарки, мы с мамой готовили бы обед, пошли бы в церковь...
>>Nelly: Yes. Just this 25th I missed everyone very much. [?] If I were at home now we would give gifts [to our] friends, we would make dinner with Mama, we would go to church...

[?] - no, it's correct.
"мы дарили бы друг подарки" this thrase is wrong. It should be either "мы дарили бы друзьям подарки" - then your translation is correct, either and more probably (? How to say that?) "мы дарили бы друг другу подарки". Друг другу - to each other.

[kittydesade]

Hmm. Usually it's prepare, plan, or arrange a party. Which verb is used, I think, depends on the region of the English speaker.

All right! Feast it is. :)

thrase? You mean phrase? Hm. I'm at work now, I'll have to look in the book again when I get home.

[behe_moth]

I don't think it matters much which verb to use, but вечер here definitely means a party.

Phrase, of cource 8) For Russian ear th not differs much from ph, and I remembered that there's something with 'h' :-D

[behe_moth]

>>Лена: А у вас все ходят в церковь на Рождество?
>>Lena: [Not sure how to translate this... for you?] everyone go to church on Christmas?
У вас here means something like "at your place". So,
Does everyone go to [the?] church on Christmas at your place?

Phew, that was the last one )
Have to go now, my pet bear is hungry and crying my wife has a whole freaking pile of plans for me to do some housework.

[kittydesade]

... Yes! Hah. I learned that, and it flew right out of my brain.

Thank you. :)

[clockwork_girl]

I had meant to be online more last night but was absolutely knackered after getting back from the movies. I sort of passed out on the couch and then woke up and went to bed.

Also, your parkour skills sound pretty damn spectacular. And probably twice as tiring as it sounds.

[kittydesade]

Oh, I know the feeling. I think I've been going to bed early most nights this week so far.

Thanks! I think... it either sounds more awesome than it is or looks more awesome than I think it is? Or something. But it definitely is tiring. I go out in the morning in my workout clothes on a cool morning and come back pretty rank in sweat.

But, I didn't used to be able to do all that running and jumping before. So, there is improvement, and it's worth it.

[clockwork_girl]

I'm usually such a night owl too. Which, I guess, is why I find it so surprising. Still, sleep is good.

It certainly sounds like it. That and that it's not something for the faint of heart.

[kittydesade]

Sleep is very good.

Huh. You know, I never thought of that. I just wanted to run and move like the action heroes I see in the movies, and then one day I realized I could practice in the park, running and jumping over things. So I did.

[clockwork_girl]

And that right there is just...awesome. Really.